Thursday, June 28, 2012

First Reactions to Rumors

I haven't been addressing the 6th ed stuff much but now that there's some confirmation behind a lot of them I figured I would add some thoughts.  Keep in mind some of this may still be inaccurate.

This list was copied from Dark Future Gaming.  My comments are in italics.

  • Turn system is the same Good
  • New deep strike mishap only kills you on a 1 Good
  • No consolidating into new enemies. Good
  • All the fortifications are already GW terrain models. The Aegis defense line is 50pts. Bastion is 75. Fortress of Redemption is 220. Skyshield Landing pad is the final. You get 1 fortification, and upgrades are along the lines of extra guns, or Comms Relay for 20 oints that rerolls reserves. (Skyshield comes with this)  Meh.  Letting players place large buildings could easily be abused.  Some tournaments don't provide enough terrain so the guy with 20 missiles and a Fortress wins?  Can my WWP DE use a skyshield?
  • Still roll for your turn and seize initiative Good
  • Night Fight mean you cant shoot over 36″. Over 24″ away has shrouded (+2 cover save), over 12 away has stealth. Night fight is in play for all the missions. It is only in effect on a 4+ however, and you roll for it to go away every turn on a 4+  Love it.  Mostly because my nids will get better cover while advancing.  Being able to shoot 36" guaranteed is nice too.
  • No change to weapons skill or to wound charts I heard 6's always wound even t7/t8?
  • You can always measure Less player skill in placement but also less lost productivity.  Increased casualties and attrition.  Faster games.
  • Can regroup as long as you are above 25%, and independent characters mean you can any time Like it.
Movement Phase
  • Jump infantry move 12, re roll charge dice (2D6) get a impact hits (called hammer of wrath).  Love it.  Here come the gargoyles and shrikes.
  • Bikes turbo boost in shooting phase 12 (jet bikes 24, eldar jetbikes 36 for a total of * 48inch move in 1 turn).
  • Cavalry and Beasts move 12 and are fleet. Cav aren’t slowed by terrain but counts as dangerous. Beasts ignore terrain altogether!  Interesting.  Still up to 24" assault but higher averages.  Beastmasters and Raveners are happy.
  • Mysterious terrain: you become so comfortable you get FnP, but must make a leadership test to leave.
  • Mysterious terrain: Ice that freezes your armor and gives you a +1 save
Shooting Phase
  • Wound allocation is closest to furthest simple as that. Doesn’t matter what gear they have. So put you important stuff at the back! With multi wounds you have to kill a model before it goes back any further. With different armor saves in units you have to kill the closest first before you start hitting the back models. Independant chars get a lookout sir 2+ so you can still have them at the front.  Like it.  Different kinds of shenanigans but less abused than 5th allocation IMO.
  • If you cant see a model or are out of range you cant kill it no matter how many wounds you do on the unit.  Love it.  Kill points or the equivalent will be a lot harder to get.  Always hide 1 model out of sight in each unit?  Will promote mobility to finish units and punish static gunlines.
  • Cover save is generally 5+, ruins is 4+, most everything else is 5+ including shooting thought troops. but you only need to have 25% hidden or troops or tanks to get cover. IDK about this yet.  I may be building 2 pieces of ruins for each of my tables heh.
  • Anything can shoot air, but only with snapshots (6+). Some weapons are AA and hit normally.
  • Runs do disallow assaults. Fleet doesn’t overcome this but lets you reroll your charge.
  • Snipers can allocate the wound on a hit of a 6
  • Infantry with heavy weapons can move and snapfire Like it.  Long fangs will be happy.
Assault Phase
  • Charges are 2D6, and you can overwatch against it which is every model gets to shoot at BS1 except heavy weapons. Template weapons do D3 auto hits at S and AP of the weapon. Blast can’t snapshot so no over-watch shots. Because of wound allocation, overwatch also pulls from the front before they reach you.  This can potentially hurt a lot of assault armies.  The new bubblewrap will become shooty units with the overwatch BS buff.
  • Overwatch activates before the assaulting unit rolls for range, but after they declare
  • You can’t run and charge even with fleet.
  • No assault after Rapid Firing
  • Assaulting through cover: roll an extra dice and take away the highest. Then you are I 1 unless you have assault grenades then its normal I order.
  • Models pile in I order instead of all at the start.
  • All units can choose to fail their leadership to run away from a unit they can’t hurt, unless fearless Love it though regrouping will still be tricky.  I guess it's like a hit-and-run.
  • Power swords are AP 3. Axes +1 S, AP2 and make you I 1.  Good news later - FNP against these now?  Units will have to decide if they're happy killing power armor or if they need to kill terminators.  Terminators are happy.
  • Any power weapons unspecified you must look at the model and see what they have for what kind of power weapon they have.
  • Powerfists and power axes are both unwieldy (strike at I 1).
  • Witchblades are 2+ wounds 2D6 armor pen, but not S9
  • Anything that counts as a power weapon get AP 3 and the rest of its special rules. * Power claws are powerfists. Big choppas are not mentioned. The only odd weapon with an AP is a ”heavy chainsword” with AP 5.
  • “Force weapon” is a modifier, not a type, so a Force Sword is AP3 with the force weapon rule
  • Lances (the CC weapon) are S normal AP4, but +1 S and AP3 on the charge
  • 1 model per unit can throw a grenade instead of shooting normally. All are blast except krak and haywire. Frag are S3 AP -, plasma are S4 AP4, Krak S6 AP4.
  • Mauls are +2 S and AP4 (ie Crozius)
  • Icarus Lascannon 92″ S9 AP2 Heavy 1, Interceptor (can shoot reserves) Skyfire (uses full BS against zooming flyers)
  • Blast weapons seem to use full strength against vehicles even with partial coverage Good.  Will add to the overall decline in vehicles.
  • You can usually shoot all weapons as long as you don’t go flat out, but its a snap shot so only hits on a 6+ Like it.  Twin linked got better.  Promotes mobility.
  • Two new vehicle types: chariots. look like they work like the necron command barge. and heavy, works like the monolith.  So only new codexes get these or others will be added in WD?  Chaos and DA chariots next?
  • All skimmers get a 5+ “jink” if them move, same with jetbikes
  • Walkers still move 6″ and get Hammer of Wrath, a single auto hit attack at base S and AP-
  • Fast skimmers can flat-out 18″ in the movement phase, then turboboost in the shooting phase. Fast skimmers can go 30″ in one turn
  • Vehicles that move are WS1, those that don’t are WS0 Love it.  Tyranids can assault vehicles again.
  • Squadron rules are the same, and use the proximity wound allocation
  • Flyers move 18″ at combat speed and 36″ at cruising while zooming. If they are forced to move less than 18″ they are automatically wrecked.
  • All things on flying bases are flyers
  • You may choose to evade if you are zooming (as opposed to hovering) works like going to ground and gives you jink but can only shoot snap shots next turn.
  • While zooming, flyers can only make a single 90 degree pivot, and then move straight. * They also do not take terrain tests, and move over models.  Ugh back to pivots.
  • Zooming flyers cannot embark or disembark troops, ram, tank shock, or be rammed.  Lol.  Time to relearn how to use a stormraven/valkyrie
  • Flyers must start in reserve Ugh.  No more valk scout move alpha strike.
  • Zooming fliers that die drop a S 6 large template of debris that hits the table LOL
  • If flyers die with troops inside while zooming every model take a S10 AP1 hit LOL
  • Zooming flyers can fire up to 4 weapons at full ballistic skill while moving at cruising speed
  • A flyer that moves off the board enters “ongoing reserves” FML so they can keep leaving the game and coming back?  At least units in transports can't score anymore and you can't disembark after zooming.
  • If it suffers an immobilized result while zooming, it suffers “Locked Velocity”. It can’t evade, go flat out, and must remain at the speed it was using when hit.
Vehicle and damage
  • Hull points are taken off by glancing hits but no roll on the table. All gone = wreck.  Byebye mech spam!  You don't think so?  My 60 genestealer attacks that hit on 3's now will auto-wreck anything short of a LR and even a LR with furious charge.  How about a unit of 20 wyches with haywire grenades?  10 scourges with 2 haywire blasters?  Voltaic staves everywhere.
  • Pens roll on the table and take a hull point. 1-2 shaken, 3 stunned, 4 weapon gone, 5 immobilised, 6 explodes.
  • Most vehicles have 3. land raider have 4, vipers have 2, battle wagon thats 4, buggies are 2, defilers and soul grinders have 4, Venom-Raider-Ravager-Jets all have 3, Amazing.  3 glances wreck the most common vehicles?  2 damage results auto-kill a venom?  Expect lots of complaining from the mech spam players but I'm happy with it all.
  • Hitting a vehicle that moved is a 3+, but you can’t attack zooming flyers Yeah buddy.  Expect triple stormraven lists and 9 vendettas.... Maybe some of each with allies.
Vehicle and Passenger
  • You may not disembark at all if the vehicle moved more than 6″. You are allowed to move up to 6″ after you disembark though.  Different... Less mobility for troops.  No more move 12 disembark 2 and fire.
  • You can shoot from a vehicle that has moved 6″ normally, snapshot at cruising, and no shooting at flatout
  • Normal explosions are the same.
  • No 2″ deploy, just a 6″ move, even if the vehicle has moved up to 6″  Like it.  Another mech nerf.
Monstrous Creatures
  • No longer get 2D6 armor pen Uh oh.
  • Get smash: AP2 and half attacks to double strength and reroll Armour pen results.  Makes up for the above.
  • Can be “shot down” during a Vector Strike. Getting shot down is 1 or more hits from a units shooting, and then rolling a 1or2 on a D6.
  • Get Hammer of Wrath (the impact hit) Yay!  All MC's got a lot better.  2+ armor got better in CC.  Power weapons and force swords got a lot worse.  I'm starting to see why tyranids are getting a boost.
Psychic Power
  • A new psychic power that lets you overwatch with full BS as well.  The new bane of assault armies.
  • Mastery levels are in
  • Divination: roll 3 dice for reserves, outflank and terrain and choose
  • Divination: make an opponent reroll all Armour saves for a game turn!
  • Divination: make a units shooting ignor cover.
  • Telepathy: make a single model shoot its own army.
  • Telepathy: make a unit hallucinate making it either pinned, cant do anything or hits its self.
  • Telepathy: give a units +3 stealth save, can be counter attacked, and CC opponents are WS1
  • Psychic hoods are limited to range 6
  • Generating Discipline spells is a roll like in Fantasy (but you reroll a double instead of choosing)
  • A power’s Warp Charge is how many spells you can cast. So a Warp level two requires mastery level two and counts as casting two normal powers Tyants will be ML 2 or 3?  Tervigons?  FnP got more reliable due to hood nerf.
  • Sergeants count as characters.
  • On a hit of a 6, characters can allocate the wound.  Cool.
  • Challenges: chars just get to fight each other one on one.  IDK.  Gonna turn into "who brought the biggest stick"
  • Can get around the proximity wound allocation using “Look out, Sir!” to make someone else take it
Special Rules
  • Preferred enemy is reroll all hits and wounds that roll a 1, from shooting and combat. *Fleet lets you re roll all run and change moves.  Hmm, only rerolling 1's hurts a bit, but using it in shooting helps.  Old adversary tyrant became my new auto-include.
  • FnP is now 5+. You get FnP against anything that doesn’t cause instant death  This actually may be good for tyranids but bad for my grotesques.  Happy if I can FnP melta, lascannons, and power weapons.
  • Acute senses is rerolling outflank
  • Rage is +2 on the charge
  • Fearless works the same, except the “No retreat” rule couldn’t be found (may or may not exist)
  • Beasts and cavalry can move 12, then assault 2D6 with a reroll.
  • Soul blaze is basically a unit stays on fire and takes extra hits next turn.
  • Specialist weapon is you don’t get a bonus for extra close combat weapons with it. like powerfirst now.
  • Move through cover ignores dangerous terrain, but doesn’t affect assaults
  • Night Vision ignores Night Fighting
  • Furious charge no longer gives +1 initiative Doh.
  • Codex updates will be separate, probably WD or FAQs
  • Daemonic Fear is a LD test or become WS1. Fearless units and know no fear and immune to it.
  • Storm ravens are listen under the vanilla space marine section too apparently.
  • Normal one D3 +2 objectives.
  • One where heavy support can claim objectives and you get extra points for killing heavy support. Same but with fast attack.
  • A kill point one.
  • One where there is a relic you take and move with that’s basically an objective. And a capture and control-ish one.
Well that's first reactions.  I'm very excited for the new rules and changes.  I'm sad tyranids won't get allies but it definitely looks like they're getting a boost.  GK are GK and will be a little different but not much.  My NDK's are a bit scarier now.  My DE may be getting screwed if the rumors are true about reserving more than 50% along with the cover/FnP nerfs.  Of all 3 armies, I'm most excited to test out the tyranids.


  1. Nids are going to get a big boost me thinks, especially in the shooting department, with prolific access to psychic powers.

  2. For sure. My hive guard and tfex will love rerolling 1's. Dakkafexes/tyrant will statistically wreck a rhino every time by removing 3 hull points.

    I wonder which additional powers the zoanthropes can choose from as well. I'd love to be able to use them for buff/debuff instead of straight shooting.

  3. The 90 degree pivot thing is new to me. So basically you will have fly in a diamond type pattern, and stay out of corners. I'm sure people will be pissed the first time their valk/storm raven get lured into a corner and a 90 degree pivot leaves them moving less than 18"

    The DE webway list will have some nice balancing factors, FnP drops to 5+, but Grots will get it vs everything but Str 10 weapons, will be much more resilient to plasma. Allies add an interesting opportunity as well. As battle brothers, we benefit from the Eldar special rules. Autaurch giving +1 to reserves, or a Farseer with the new divination powers, or even just Fortune/guide.

    I do think you are correct though, Nids will see the most benefit from the change in game dynamics.

  4. Like I said its not 100% yet but I hope the pivots are in for flyers. It would balance their survivability by restricting their shooting targets.

    Not 100% on FnP and instant death yet but I'd via double toughness may be out. Not many rumors about I'd but somewhere someone said +4 over toughness would be 2 wounds which would mean only special abilities that name I'd actually cause I'd.

  5. I don't understand why 6th would be positive for nids. I like nids as an assault army and the way I see it, assault is going to be worse of than before. From my point of view, these are the pro's and con's:
    - Cover to 5+: this impacts all nids but mostly the assaulty ones. I know that nids can be played as shooty but I prefer them as assault.
    - Overwatch: nids have horrible armor saves, so Orks or IG with lots of cheap shots are going to hurt us even more when we charge.
    - Rapid fire not hurt by moving: Marines get to shoot at full range, pull back, rapid fire, and use Overwatch.
    - Vehicle movement: all vehicles got 6" more to move away from us.
    - Flyers: ugh, can do nothing about them.
    - Allies: all opposing armies get to minimize their weaknesses by choosing allies, nids don't.

    - FnP: not even sure how good this is. Yes, we're immune against ap1/2 and power weapons but we're more vulnerable to anti infantry fire.
    - Hammer of Wrath on MCs: this is minimal, MC's don't need a boost like this.
    - Assaulting vehicles: this one is big. However, my main problem with assaulting vehicles has always been the number of deaths after the explosion.
    - Changes to power weapons? This seems like a con to me, termies benefit from this but we don't have termies.

    Overall, it doesn't look good to me. What might change it a bit in our favor is changes in ID but that's only for warriors and raveners.

    1. The biggest change for the better I see for nids is the lack of fearless saves. Tarpits are back and things like hormagaunts are looking pretty good with their beast movement + no fearless saves.

      Most nids lists i've had success with want to close into assault by turn 2, 3 at the worse. if you aren't tying up their first level of units by then, you might as well pack it in anyway.

      Killing vehicles became trivial for most nids that you'd throw at them. a squad of 2 hive guard can now statistically eat a rhino (4 hits, 3 glances/pens) so you can likely get an elite slot back. Dakka fexes and tyrants are golden.

      Harpies may just be a new powerhouse if what i've read about flying monstrous creatures is true.

      I'm *very* optimistic to be honest, even without the new psychic powers. Also, Shadow in the Warp becomes much more useful (and i wonder if it applies to people in vehicles)

      I see the biggest problem now being the inability to kill flyers (no AA type weaponry and no assaulting them)

  6. Looks like 2xtis still in for ID so that sucks for warriors and raveners.

    MC's will get FnP against everything that doesn't cause ID through a special rule, even melta, lascannons, power fists, etc. But only 5+.

    Exploding vehicles still suck to gribblies, but you can only explode a vehicle with a pen. Surrounding a rhino with FC gargoyles or gaunts and landing 3 glances (3+ to hit, 6 to glance) will wreck it and potentially lose the unit inside.

    I'm not worried about fliers. To "Zoom" they cannot displace less than 18" and are wrecked if they do. If zooming, they can only make one 90 degree pivot before moving and must move straight. That means if they want to only be hit on 6's, they will have to come in from a corner and probably only get 1 turn to shoot before they have to pivot. They must also always reserve.

    Assault distances are improved for nids. MTC ignores terrain now so genestealers can move 6" then assault 2d6" and reroll or one both dice. I'm no good at mathammer but I think that's better than 3d6+d6+3d6 if you had to cross terrain in 5th ed. Raveners get to move 12" and assault 2d6 with rerolls on both.

    The thing that's going to suck is overwatch and 5+ cover. Even with overwatch tho (unnbuffed by psy power) 10 marines would get 1-2 hits and maybe 1 wound. Psy buffed overwatch is a different beast. We may see our meta move away from genestealer hordes back to MC's.

    I can't overstate how awesome the new vehicles rules will be for us tho as mech spam was our kryptonite. Units embarked can no longer score. 3-4 glances will wreck any vehicle.

    Looks like my DE build is screwed tho if you must always deploy at least half of your army.

    Anyone seen which disciplines zoanthropes can choose from?

  7. You said "genestealers can move 6" then assault 2d6" and reroll or one both dice" but I thought that the reroll was for both dice?

    Anyway, reading your response made me realize: I have 2 units of stealers in my list and that's my core. Stealers look to be less than spectacular in 6th so that's why I feel disappointed.

    If I look at the troops section:
    - Stealers are out.
    - Warriors are unsure (ID with only a 5+ cover save?)
    - Gaunts are unsure (fleet has lost it's advantage over non-fleet units).
    - Gants seem ok (they profit from overwatch and 2d6 assault range).

    Overall, I'm liking 6th from my SM/BA perspective but still unsure or hesitant from my nids perspective.

  8. Oh yeah it appears no retreat wounds for fearless units are gone? That's huge for nids. Tarpitting units with gants and gargoyles while the MC's get in position will be important.

    MCs will also cause fear - ld test or become ws1? Broodlord/trygon combo and make them hit on 5's.

  9. I hope that Tyrants and Tervigons are level 2/3 psykers. I think it's looking like overall Nidz got a big boost.

    : )

  10. Hearing multiple people say you can't assault out of reserves (outflank) tho so that will screw over genestealers a lot. Ymgarls become more valuable.

    After thinking over vector strike, IDK if it will make our flying MC's worth it yet. A flyrant with devourers may be a good gun platform tho as most skyfire platforms won't shoot ap3 and better.

    I really hope MTC counts as grenades or something people aren't talking about yet or else we're getting shot first and striking last. Add in that marines can use krak grenades in assault(?) and both the gribblies and MC's will be losing combats.

  11. Flamers get d3 auto hits on assaulting units?

    "Why yes, that's a 100pt purgation squad with 4 free incinerators in your way"

    A funny thing happened...

    "I put 3 stranglewebs (wtf is that right?) in my gaunt screen and they just pinned you before you could make your assault move"

  12. NDK's with hvy incinerators get to burn you d3 times before you assault now too, cause fear, and can halve their attacks to go to str10?

    Looks like poison is fixed so poisoned trygons get 2+/2+ to wound and 3+/3+ to hit on MEQs now muahahaha. "Oh and I'll sacrifice two of those attacks and go str10 on your IC"

    Gargoyles get impact hits but if it's unmodified str, do they really need them? Maybe they'll move 12 and assault 2d6 with a reroll for improved range. Again, the absence of no retreat wounds means more to these guys.

  13. Do all tyranids have access to biomancy, telekenesis, and telepathy? Anyone know or is each unit restricted?

    Like, can my broodlord take biomancy and get the power to put him up to str8/t8 and challenge another character in CC?

    Having a tyrant that can hand out FNP would also be helpful the turns before it hits paroxysm range.

    1. What i have heard is that all tyranid psyker can choose to take the codex psychic power or the new one. Can choose one psychic power for each they have listed in codex (broodlord 2, Tyrant 2, Tervigon 1 with the option to take 2 extra at 15 point each and so on). And yes for now there aren't rescriction