From Colin "Prot" on The Tyranid Hive:
I don't have an account so I can't comment directly on your blog, but I wanted to drop you a line.
Basically I've joined your kind of 'cause', and I come from a long background in the game.... largely power armoured, and even moderated over at the Bolter and Chainsword.
I just wanted to let you know that I think the blog you've got going is probably the best of its kind, and a very positive influence on Nid players and hobbiests in genral. I for one appreciate the time you're taking to share your experiences with us wether it be in your well written articles, or great batreps.
I definitely feel your good and bad moments with the army because I'm in a similar boat. I've left power armour (Wolves specifically) to persue 'competitve' Nids. I know it's an uphill battle and I have local buddies who gave up on Nids, and warned me against them. Nevertheless I dove into my Hive Fleet Behemoth (Some pics here if you're curious: http://thetyranidhive.
So I am trying really hard to compete against the likes of tier one lists like Wolves, Blood Angels... a lot of Ork variants, (Kan Wall, Nob Bikes etc), Daemons and probably vanilla marines most often..... It is an uphill battle to be sure. But your blog makes it a little easier.... Thanks for putting in the effort. It's appreciated!
Thanks for taking the time to write me, Colin. It makes it all worth the time when I hear it's helping others! I love your work on Hive Fleet Behemoth, keep it up! Tyranids are indeed feeling like more of an uphill battle with each new codex released. At the end of the day, it's still you versus the person standing across from you, so don't let certain armies or units defeat you before the game has even begun. Tyranids are still placing in the top 3 when our local players bring them out to tournaments. Stay in touch, let us know how you fare in your hobby group, and send more pics of your hive fleet sometime!
I'm rereading your thoughts posted here:
Also I rearrange what you've written down and try to write my own
thoughts in the same manner.
I have 2 questions on the Step 1.
1. Do you still think that tyranid army necessary needs a long range
anti-tank? A lot of successful need players don't use neither Tfexes
nor Harpies at all.
2. You wrote that Dual lash CSM list is a paper-scissors type of list.
Can you tell me, how to build a "Rock" list for the Dual lash
"Scissors"? Just a few points?
Erle, Hivemind of Hive-fleet Hyenna."
1. Long range anti-tank is not required by any means. Different players have different list concepts and styles. I do believe you need some ranged anti-tank, but our "long-range " options are not always best for our lists. For example, zoans in a pod may fit a reserve list better than a tfex. You just want to avoid relying on assaults to flip transports as you'll rarely survive long enough to flip a tank and then assault the unit that was inside.
2. Dual lash lists rely on either sorcerors or princes to lash you into assaults they control, or nice clusters so they can drop a bunch of templates on you. To create a "rock " to that "scissor ", you need to either hamstring their psychic powers or shooting support fast. If I wanted to tailor a list to perform well against dual lash, I would probably make an all reserve army. This gives you the ability to plop SiTW right by their psykers, and potentially tie up key units in assault before they lash you into oblivion.
At 2,000pts the list would look something like this:
Flyrant + hvc, hc
Zoans x3 + mycetic spore/tl deathspitter
Tervigon + ts, ag, cat
Genestealers x10 + ts, broodlord/scything
Genestealers x10 + ts, broodlord/scything
Harpy + hvc
Harpy + hvc
I would start everything in reserve, outflanking the genestealers and tervigon (with hc). Hope for good terrain for the ymgarls and play it smart. The outflankers should force your opponent into the middle, so hide the ymgarls where they can strike the middle. Deep strike the tyrant and zoans to try and get SiTW on the lashers. Use the lances and hvc's to get sorcerors out of transports or take out the shooting units, then tie them up with ymgarls. Genestealers won't get to assault after outflanking unless your opponent plays sloppy, so they're the second wave of assaults. Use the broodlord's aura to reduce leadership further for psychic tests or hypnotize the princes (also why they have poison). Tervigon and gants are your scoring units. You want to go second with this army. The key here is removing two shooting phases from your opponent's game by reserving everything and going second. Then take out or tie up the lynchpin units making his lash combo and force him into a reactionary stance.
"Hello, i am a long time reader and admirer of your battle reports. I really like your tervigon backed genestealers and am glad to see someone really trying prove that us nids can still beat some serious face =)
Getting ready for this years ard boyz, i am trying something a little risky, a dual deathstar nidzilla list. sadly this list doesn't really follow your advice on balance for army lists, but its not really about balance. The idea of this list is to flood the field with vast amounts of T6 and over whelm my opponents ability to deal with them. without further ado, here it is.
-3x tyrant guard
scything talons, bonesword/ lash whip
armored shell, old adversary
paroxysm, life leech
-3x tyrant guard
-3x hive guard
-3x hive guard
-3x hive guard
toxin sacs, scything talons
2x scything talons
i know this list is incredibly unbalanced, but im hoping i can use this to my advantage, the high toughness on most of my models renders most infantry weapons useless. I know that my army is very slow, and that really is its Achilles's heal. the 2 tyrant units walk up behind a gaunt wall getting a 4+ cover save from low ap shooting and charge into the baddest enemy unit, while the hive guard hide behind them suppressing and destroying light-mid vehicles. tervigons are pretty obvious, and through out FnP where needed. the stealers are there to deal with things like dev squads, artillery tanks and other back field threats, with the swarm lord, i can rely on them arriving where and when i want them. The biovores are here for crowd control, and now we come to the elephants in the room, the fexes. I know they are ragingly unpopular, but they serve my purposes. people make sure they die fast, and typically they do, however, by running them right into the heart of the enemy, it means that my tyrant unitsget to combat in tact (or at least more so). I know this list is pretty unstable, and it is still in the testing phase, but so far it has taken on gray knights, raider/ ravager spam dark eldar, and mechvet leafblower guard and triumphed almost every time. It takes a beating on the way over, but when it finally hits it typically does so like a shit tonne of bricks. I am interested in your opinion because i see you are very successful with your bugs. If you think this list is childish and will get shot up before it hits combat, then dont feel scared to be brutally honest, i know its slow speed is a glaring weakness, although, again i have found cover saves, high T, FnP nad a good save have helped my bugs get where they need to be with enough strength to do the job. Thanks anyways, and good luck with your own bugs.
Let me start off by saying you should always play to your gut feeling or personal preference first. If you read my previous article on balance , you know it's possible to take a list that the internet wouldn't support and still outperform newer codex's and more optimized armies. Your local meta and skill level of local players will also play a large point in 'Ard Boyz. If you bring one of Stelek's shooty nid lists to the shop hosting this year's prelims, and only 9 other guys show up, all with assaulty armies, you'll still lose.
Don't forget they usually release the missions a week or two before the event and they aren't always balanced either. Changing your list after you see the missions is also potentially good.
All of that being said, here's my take on the list. I actually like the dual tyrant deathstars and considered it for myself this year. I just don't really want to throw down enough $$$ for another tyrant and 3 guard. I do think they're better with lash whips, at least for the ones running with the swarmlord. The problem with how a list like this works is how slow it is. Everything starts in your deployment zone and trips over each other as soon as a front unit makes a poor terrain or run roll. This being the case, I would rather see more deployment options or speed in place of the carnifex's.
If you downgrade the boneswords on the tyrant guard to lash whips, drop the toxin sacs on the genestealers, and trade out the carnifex's you could add:
4x, 4x, 3x raveners with rending
38 more naked genestealers
2x25 super gargoyles
The trygons accomplish the same thing as carnifex's (except ID'ing nobs) but faster and with more wounds. If you go second, you can deep strike them and they'll arrive about the same time your deathstars hit enemy lines, creating more chaos and targeting priority issues. Raveners could serve as lightning strike units to tag fast MSU type armies like dark eldar and blood angels. Large units of genestealers are some of my favorite in the army as you know which can be infiltrated for pressure and disruption, or outflanked for objectives and castlers. Large units of gargoyles are fast cover that take a lot of fire with cover and FnP, pose a viable threat to infantry and transports, and are always underestimated with poison, furious charge, preferred enemy, and blinding venom.
Those are a few changes I would make if it were me. Let me know what you end up with and how it works for you!