(photo from BoK)
Some of you may have already heard this... Jay Woodcock <DaBoyz> climbed all the way up to 4th out of 256 players in the Adepticon 40k Championships. Jay also happens to be a pal of mine and a teammate for the our local club's <DaBoyz> crew I'm going with to the ATC (American Team Championships). I've also had the pleasure of playing against Jay's:
Jay is a cool dude and a great general. I chatted a bit with him about Adepticon and decided to share his list and some thoughts so we can all discuss.
Jay's 1850 Adepticon List:
Tervigon + ag, ts, cat, cc
Tervigon + ag, ts, cat
Hive Guard x3
Hive Guard x3
Zoanthropes x3
Genestealers x20
Genestealers x20
Genestealers x15
Gargoyles x26 + ag
There it is... A deadly army in the hands of a very skilled general. Jay went 6-0-2 and admitted his heart wasn't really in the last game. I've never played 8 in one weekend, but I know I'm drained after 3 games. In order, Jay played:
Blood Angels from this chap: http://briancarlsonminiatures.blogspot.com/
Space Wolves
Orks - horde with ghaz and nob bikers
CSM with dual lash (Ragnar was the player who went on to take 2nd)
Daemons - Brent from http://strictlyaverage.blogspot.com/ and BoLS
C:SM White Scars - Brandon from http://stillfrostyconversions.com/
Imperial Guard
Orks
That's one each of the "Big Three" (IG/BA/SW). Orks, Daemons, and dual lash Chaos are tough match ups for Nids on a good day. When I asked him which list/player gave him the most trouble, Jay said:
"It was Brent’s. It was deamons. The only army that out assaults you. His army was good, but he made some mistakes. In my opinion Ricky (last game with the orks) is the only person that out played me. IG list does what IG does. Shoot you until your dead. He was very good player (and nice) and did not make a mistake."
So there you go. The list, results, and thoughts from the general. Feel free to discuss your thoughts or pose questions.
Jay's pretty much spot on - I did make mistakes.
ReplyDeleteBut he didn't! I think that's what he's too polite to say. Between top players, sometimes it's decided by who makes a mistake or an inferior move and who doesn't.
Jay played his game perfectly, and in my opinion was the only player to outplay me! He deserved the win because he earned it.
(I had a bad matchup against a great player afterward, but that was more a mismatch and a misunderstanding regarding my opponent's army than me making an actual game error.)
I just have to say, Jay is a true class act. He's on my list of truly decent people.
Don't tell him I said that though... say, "Brent says you cheated, you Yankee booty-hole!" or something equally hateful. :)
Interesting to see the lack of tox, even on the gargs, but claws on the terv, and zero heavy support. Congrats to Jay though - nice to see both nids and orks at the top tables.
ReplyDeleteIt was a real pleasure to tune in online and realize there was a Nid army in contention. Congrats!
ReplyDeleteSeems fragile at first, but with cover and Catalyst those Genestealers must have been a nightmare to shift.
I'm just so happy about this (Thank you Jay Woodcock !!), that I've only got one thing to say...
ReplyDelete"Go 'Nids! It's yer Birfday! Getcher Groove on!"
(you'll just hafta imagine me doing a Martin Lawrence type of dance and going "Uh! Uh!" as I do it)
I'll start to think about the list, and hopefully find some Batreps or what have you, in a day or so.
Right now, I'm hugging my little bugs, and building a small shrine for a special Orange, White and....Pink (?!?) Tyranid I'm painting in Jay's Honor.
I'm also practicing my 'mocking laugh' for the couple Dark Eldar Vets I know, who mocked my Codex and bragged about their own....They're preparing 'Learning Curve' excuses, although they've been playing the SAME LISTS for 12 years, and it was supposed to be 'better now.'
(what I do is point and laugh, like that kid from the Simpsons)
The best part this weekend was hearing my Vanilla Marine and Blood Angel friends complain that Tervigons were 'OP Bullsh*t.'
Ah, that felt good....
Thanks again, and big ups to Mr. Woodcock!
Good to see a high Tyranid placing in a big tournament. Would be really nice with an analysis from Jay himself, regarding the decision to go with big units over upgrades, and the skipping of Toxin Sacs for Genestealers in particular. At some point he must have decided that quantity has a quality of it's own, which is true when it comes to Tyranids and how our external buffs work.
ReplyDeleteAlso Zoanthropes - with hindsight, does he wish he had taken 3 more Hive Guards instead?
And Crushing Claws on the Tervigon - did they make a difference in any game?
Which game, apart from against IG, did he lose?
quantity vs quality, we know you well.
ReplyDeletefrom what I've read on brandon's blog, the white scars, the claws pulled off full attacks and hits to wipe out a biker unit. yay, crushing claws. and here I thought I was the only dude who liked them, lol.
He's got an interesting list. I like to get his thoughts on his list and what he would tweak or alter now that he's seen how it places. I'd like to see some hi-rez photos of his army, they look great!
ReplyDeleteWell I had an epic response but it got eaten by the internet.
ReplyDeleteBasically, the list has all the tools you need in multiple forms. Everything can damage vehicles with either shooting or CC.
The list is a starting point, but a bad general can still play a great list poorly. Tyranids are a finesse army and as such, our mistakes hurt us more. Leaving 11 of your 20 genestealers out of cover, or misplaying catalyst range can literally lose the game for you.
Zoans a crushing claws may not be popular, but the are still workable. Five of Jay's eight opponents didn't have psy defense so that makes tervigons and zoans even more effective. It's a gamble that paid off in the end.
I think it's valuable for us nid players to start proving that we actually have viable options in units and builds. Yes, he used tervigons and hive guard. He didn't max either though and the tervigons were both HQ's which is against the norm. No triple trygons, no tyrant deathstar, no shooting past 24".
Jay is a superb player and that's what matters for consistency. Your dice will occasionally fail, but the best players will build lists that don't rely on lynchpin dice rolls. You can get great pairings or terrible, but the best players will be prepared for both and know how to apply their list to the scenario and opponent.
For those of you who don't know his resume, Jay also took the semifinals at Ard Boyz last year (won the 2500pt army), has placed 3rd at the Adepticon Team Tournament, was on the top tables at Warmaster's Challenge, and consistently is in the top 3 for our local RTT's. He's now on the ETC Team and is the second player from our club (DaBoyz) to represent America this year. I'm sure he could name off two dozen more accomplishments, but I've only known him for a year.
Hyv3mynd is correct.
ReplyDeleteI think the best way to win with this army is to practice practice and more practice. I think last 6 months I played about 40 games. It really is a finesse army. The other advice i have is try ever thing in the codex at least once and ideas off other nid players. I did this with Hyv3mynd and the ETC player that took nids. I still think there are other good builds left yet to explore
I agree with the crushing claws. I might have taken more Genestealers, but the crushing claws won my first and sixth game.
I typically keep the Tervigon hidden and out of the way and only put them in harm’s way when needed to.
I agree hive guard are better than Zoanthropes, but I believe really needed the t hird synaps
Grats Jay! What about big Genestealer broods vs TS upgraded smaller broods? I guess you feel being S4 with rend is enough, since TS wont help against mech whereas extra numbers do, and they own most infantry regardless?
ReplyDeleteVoraciousapathy from TTH refined his "Death Star" list last year, he's been running 3 Tervigons with Crushing Claws for quite some time now and is apparently winning, winning, WINNING! (I got tiger blood).
So the idea has been around, but it's not that spread. I haven't tried it out but I like it - in most of my games the Tervigons are involved in at least one combat to tip things into my favour. There's really a big difference between 3 and 3+1D3 attacks when it comes from an AG/TS Monsterous Creature that has a hard time to hit anything. If you add some Preferred Enemy, they become a force.
Congrats to jay and his nids.... go tyranids...
ReplyDeleteJay, you made my week with this news- thank you and congrats again!
ReplyDeleteWell played, sir. Well played indeed.
Jay - can I get your email address man? Shoot me a line if you are ok with it:
ReplyDeletePurgatus40k@gmail.com
Congrats!
I caught the battle report on th Stillfrosty white scar site so I had to look this up.
ReplyDeleteI getting back into the groove of playing nids and playing 40K.
One question I got from folks is: the Genestealers, they seem like your flexibility in the army, so when is the best time to use them? to offset the battle? hit weak spots? go after Hqs?
I regarded Genestealers with distain mostly because mine kept getting shot up to death. Or maybe I am just a tard cand dont know how to use them correctly.
Nevermind, found the tactica on the site...interesting set of principles will look further into this.
ReplyDelete