Friday, April 26, 2013

Daemon Codex - 1500 Tournament Redux

I had the chance last week to take the new Daemon codex out for a spin at a local tournament.  I did not, unfortunately, get a chance to take pictures due to time constraints - so I am going to provide my opponents lists, my strategy and some overall thoughts on the list.  The rounds were originally projected at 1.5 hours, but moved to 2 hours - which turned out to be a blessing.  I wanted to test some of my evaluations - and did so in a fairly restrictive environment.



Unlike many tournaments, this one included...wait for it...composition scores.  Without going into too many details, the composition requirements penalized taking Death Stars, repeated units/wargear or min/maxing selections.  20% of the score was also attributed to lists defined as 'excessively devoted to winning at all costs' which I took to mean, those looking to game the system.  As such I chose a diverse Daemon list - and took an initial comp hit of 10% for bringing a greater daemon.  My list for the event was...



HQ
Keeper of Secrets w/ Mastery 3
Herald of Tzeentch w/ Mastery 3, Exalted Gift
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Seeker Mount, Lesser Gift, Locus of Beguilement

Elites
6x Flamers

Troops
18x Daemonettes
10x Horrors
10x Horrors

Fast Attack
18x Seekers

Heavy Support
Skull Cannon
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch w/ Phlegm

Fortification
Aegis Defense Line w/ Comms relay

I thought the overall list was pretty diverse and representative of the new Daemons codex as a whole - in spite of my efforts I ended up with the 20% comp hit for an 'excessive list.'  So much for that!

There are some interesting synergies in the list - the Daemonettes and Seekers can both outflank with the help of the herald.  The Horrors can sit behind the Aegis line - or go to ground for a 2+ rerollable save.  With Divination and a Grimoire on the Tzeentch herald there is also some synergy with Forewarning (4+ invuln goes to 2+).  Finally, the Keeper of Secrets offers a shot at Invisibility which works well with the Seekers or the Keeper himself to get into combat.

I also like to include a Comms relay in general since it provides an inexpensive means to guarantee those reserve rolls - or keep units off the board - as needed, providing significant Deep Strike flexibility.  The long range shooting is rounded out by the Skull Cannon and Grinder - whose S8 bombardment can knock down Wraiths, vehicles or in the case of the cannon cut down any infantry squatting behind an Aegis.

All of this is great in theory, but in practice setting up all these combinations can be challenging.  This particular tournament saw me playing at Table 1 from the start - purely coincidence - with the following opponent...

Game 1 - Dark Eldar - Scouring - Vanguard Strike


HQ
Archon w/ Shadow Field, AP2 Weapon

Elite
3x Trueborn w/ Blasters in Venom w/ Night Shields
3x Trueborn w/ Blasters in Venom w/ Night Shields

Troops
5x Warriors in Venom w/ Night Shields
5x Warriors in Venom w/ Night Shields
5x Warriors in Venom w/ Night Shields
5x Warriors in Venom w/ Night Shields

Fast Attack
-

Heavy Support
Voidraven Bomber w/ Void Mine
Razorwing Fighter

And this is when I checked to make sure I was at a heavily comped tournament.  I am not sure what score this list earned in Comp - I think it may have been hit for 90% of the composition points.  Further, with the Scouring as the mission I really need the objectives to lineup my way.  My opponent is faster, has more shots and I have no good way to deal with flyers.  I also have a terrible history against Dark Eldar - almost always being nearly tabled with my Daemons.

Game Synopsis

I grab Invisibility for my Keeper and Prescience, Precognition and Flickering Fire on all Tzeentch units.  Naturally, it is also Night Fight turn 1 and my opponent wins the first turn.  Luckily, I have more points in objectives on my side of the table and two units of Horrors hiding behind the Aegis holding them.  I managed to keep the Keeper out of line of sight and outflank the Daemonettes - joined by Slaanesh Heral and Seekers.

With that we start and I immediately go to ground with my Horrors.  After 15-20 rerollable 2+ saves my opponent turbo boosts backward to keep out of range.  I simply do nothing, knowing that the longer I keep him on his side of the board the closer I am to winning.  Turn 2 is more of the same as I do not lose any models - although his Voidraven comes in and does nothing.  I fail my first reserve and keep out the second with the Comms relay so I can overload my opponent Turn 3.  With nothing much going on - noone has claimed First Blood yet and I have not lost a model - the DE player gets impatient and moves up into 'No Man's Land' - and this is a position I am familiar with being in.  There is almost no difference between his movement and my normal Deep Strike drops with Daemons when I failed to get my preferred wave.  Still no casualties but 36 wounds of Slaanesh Daemons show up on his objective.  He has to fall back but cannot finish them all as the rest of my army closes in on him.  We end it Turn 4 after I wreck almost all of his vehicles in an orgy of assault destruction.  Given another turn, I think 
I would have tabled him depending on my shots at his flyers.



With so little casualties on both sides, this game really spoke to how games are won/lost in the movement phase.  My opponent was out of position when the game was decided on Turn 3 with the arrival of my reserves and did not have the firepower to deal with an entire 1500 point army descending on him in one turn.

Result: Major Win

Game 2 - Tyranids - The Maw - Dawn of War


I am playing Chris P's Tyranids, and I do not think we have ever met as opponents in a tournament in spite of both of our successes at such events.  I actually know his army pretty well - other than the Shrikes - having played with him at the previous team tournament last month.  He brought:

HQ
Tyranid Prime w/ Lash Whip, Bone Swords, Toxin Sacks

Elites
Ymargl Genestealers
2x Hive Guard

Troops
Tervignon
10x Termagaunts
5x Genestealers w/ Broodlord

Fast Attack
3x Shrikes w/ Lash Whip, Bone Swords, Toxin Sacks

Heavy Support
3x Biovores
2x Carnifex Brood w/ 2x twin linked devourers

This mission is unique - in that points are awarded for sacrificing units to a portal at the center of the board.  I need to block off the portal and sacrifice units fast while knocking out the Tervignon that can just spawn new sacrifices.  If I can hold things up for long enough - there is a chance to win this but I think his list has too much power - especially in those Carnifex's for me to take on directly.

For powers he gets Warp Speed on the Broodlord, and Enfeeble (forget the other) on the Tervi.  I grab Invisibility, Acquiesence on the Keeper and Prescience, Foreboding and the usual flickering fires.  With the Hive Guard I opt not to snag the Portalglyph and take a Grimoire.

Game Synopsis

I think the skull cannon is going to be a champ in this one - until I get seized on and lose the cannon on the Skull Cannon - I still use it to assault and kill some models though.  I really hate this whole - caring if I lose first turn part of deploying armies.  I advance into an early assault with the Seekers who clean out some gaunts but get eaten alive by almost his entire army at once.  This was a huge mistake and I got overly aggressive there.  With invisibility up all I needed to do was assault one unit and not overextend myself.  Instead I allowed my units to become caught across a broad front.



I am dumping units into the portal at this point for points - and have enough pressure on to keep Chris away from it with his most important models.  This is enough for me to use some Flamers to screen off his units and  with a lucky warp storm result kill off the Ymargls with Prime.  I manage to secure a minor win, although if it had gone another turn it would have been a minor loss as some biovores and Carnifex took a nosedive for victory points into the portal.

This was one of the best games I have had in the last year - it was a close 'technical' match with a lot of fighting for position and me trying to execute a delaying action.  I made one mistake late - with a unit of 3++ horrors holding up a Tervi I charged in some Daemonettes and almost lost both units due to instability.

Result: Minor Win (I do not think anyone took a major win in this game - which put me near the top depending on the assorted bonus points)

Game 3 - Space Wolves - Hammer and Anvil - Victory Points


I once again wonder if I am at a comped tournament or not as I line up across from

HQ
Rune Priest w/ Plasma Pistol
Rune Priest

Elites
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannon
Dreadnought w/ 2x Autocannon

Troops
10x Grey Hunters w/ 2x Melta in Rhino
10x Grey Hunters w/ 2x Melta in Razorback w/ las-plas

Fast Attack
-

Heavy Support
6x Long Fangs w/ 3x Missile Launcher, 2x Lascannon
6x Long Fangs w/ 3x Missile Launcher, 2x Lascannon
6x Long Fangs w/ 3x Plasma Cannon, 2x Missile Launcher

Both Rune Priest get Divination for Prescience - I would have taken Living Lighting Myself - and I grab Invisibility again with Prescience, Forewarning and Flickering Fire.

Game Synopsis

I realize this game why people dislike Hammer and Anvil - but I have a slight advantage as my opponent spread his Long Fangs across the back edge of the board.  They are out of range and there is a large LOS blocker in the middle of the table I can use to prevent over half his army from shooting.  The story of this game is that of 2+ saves with Night Fight turn 1 protecting my units behind an Aegis that snaked back to my deployment zone and then Forewarning and the Grimoire super charging some flamers and the Keeper.  I also manage to possess one of his Rune Priest - while later getting -1 invuln the turn my Seekers/Daemonettes arrived from outflank.  Overall I lose only the Flamers while tabling my opponent on Turn 4 with Assaults form the Seekers and Daemonettes into his last 2 Long Fang squads.

This game really showed how the synergies of this list can come together.  just about everything in range at one point had a 2++ save and much of it was of the rerollable variant.  It did not help that I could dodge most the shooting through deployment and those autocannon dreads were deployed in range of a Turn 3 Keeper assault.

Result: Major Win

Overall Impressions


I ended up tied with Hyv3mynd - who played his CSM at this tournament - with respect to record.  I cannot speak for overall score since that was not shared with us following the tournament.  It included the composition points and some bonus points from the missions.  Overall, I was pleased with how the army played and felt that I had a capable army in my hands - a much different impression than I had with the new Sisters of Battle.

The way Daemons play has definitely changed - there is a lot more synergy in the army through gifts, upgrades and psychic powers.  Some of that synergy relies on luck to achieve - but there is a chance to maximize the effects.  Overall, I found the new Horrors to be adequate - they are better than the single bolt wielding variety for taking down vehicles.  Also, Seekers and Daemonettes are really dirt cheap for the number of wounds they have.  They took a bit of a hit with the loss of grenades - and I did not use the Skull Cannon to the fullest to make up for it.  It is hard to say what unit 'won the game' for me in each of these matches - which is probably the way a well balanced army should feel when it is played.

I will definitely bring the Keeper again - and at higher points I would like to include my mainstay the CSM Sorcerer for a chance at two invisibilities.  The same goes for the Skull Cannon which is really a steal for its points.  Its ability to assault provides additional flexibility if it loses the cannon and for 10 points less than the base cost of a Soul Grinder a S8 AP 5 ignores cover BS 5 large blast is excellent.  I am on the fence with the Slaanesh Herald - I think I could have deep struck the Daemonettes instead of outflanking them to guarantee they were near the Seekers.  I tended to let the Seekers get shredded though before they really reached combat - so I may just need more high profile assault threats in this army.

I also think I need more Daemonettes - an army bringing them probably needs to have 40-50 to saturate the board in bodies - most armies simply cannot throw out enough firepower to deal with that many wounds in a single turn.  With everything Deep Strike capable - there remains an opportunity to deploy at will on turn 2 and be in assault turn 3.

13 comments:

  1. Wow, you definitely had the toughest match-ups with venom spam and the 5th ed wolf list. Something I've heard Courtney say in the past is "they rely on the strength of their list" which I think rings true of many who bring spam or a netlist and expect it to do well. This just goes to show a diverse list in the hands of a great general can overcome an army that looks better on paper.

    FWIW, I barely managed a Major V in game #2: The Maw. It was mostly due to poor mission balance by design as I just had more non-vehicle units than my opponent to sacrifice. Plus, I got first turn and with the speed of spawn, jugger lord, maulerfiend, and 2 rhino squads I was able to dominate the center. First blood, linebreaker, and tossing Typhus into the pit gave me exactly what I needed to make the Major V margin.

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    1. I was hoping that I'd get paired up with the daemon list just to see what Eldrad could do against all of those psychic powers. I'm sure you would have still won but it would have been fun.

      I really did not like mission 2 as it was more about how many units you could get up to the center and sacrifice a model rather than playing the game. I played against tyranids with 2 tervigons and he was able to spawn units near the center and just keep popping in models. That was my only major loss of the day. If I had remembered to bring my walkers I am confident I would have won the first game as well.

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    2. I agree that the overall design on The Maw mission made for some unbalanced matchups. The real problem was the lack of a balancing objective that made it an actual tactical decision not to just dump units into the Maw. I lucked out in that Chris rolled doubles on his first spawn or it would have been a very different game.

      I am glad I did not have to square off against Eldrad - the Psychic powers in my list really pushed some units from just decent to very powerful when they were able to go off. Not to mention so much of my shooting relied on them too.

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  2. Was this tournament played at the Play the Game Read the Story in Syracuse? I noticed the comp score is the one they use, unless somewhere else has adopted it.

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  3. Damn I'm really upset I missed it now, I would have loved to have played against one of you guys.

    For future reference on the scoring:

    The comp score is worth roughly a minor victory in terms of overall points. So a good comp score really puts you ahead of the competition, basically giving you a 'free win'. The 'average' comp score for the players there is 3-3.5 and there has only ever been 1 person who scored a perfect 5.

    There will always be people there who eschew the comp score to just try and get all the points possible to make up for their poor comp score (you obviously played 2 of them)

    However the difference between a major and minor win is only 1 point. Which is why having good comp is better than just going for a blowout. You guys play really good diverse lists though so you should be fine.

    So, if you ever decide to return (*cough* big tournament in July *cough*) that is the best representation of the comp score I can give you. You might have known this already, but just in case you didn't. Cheers

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    1. We'll definitely be returning, tho I'm not sure about the coordination as we brought 4 blog authors and 2 other "locals" last week. We had fun meeting and chatting with the 'Cuse locals, and we'd love it if you guys came out to any of our events on the 2nd Saturday of each month at Millennium Games. May 11th will be 1999pts battle + painting, no comp, 1 forge world unit allowed barring gargantuans, super heavies, or anything with a D-wep.

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    2. I enjoyed the tournament and in general I really like composition - it matches with what I normally bring for lists anyway. I really find it boring to play the same unit with 3 copies in a game - not to mention it is tactically frustrating to have such a limited capability set.

      July is tough for me - summer tends to be my time to head up to the Adirondacks with family - but I think I happen to have one weekend reserved to stay home. I might be able to finagle it.

      Also, I am a local - so feel free to hit me up for a game either at the store or I have a board at home. If you drive, I provide drinks and food - usually a home cooked meal from the wife in there too.

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    3. @hyv3mynd: I've always wanted to make it out to Millennium Games but due to school it's really hard to make it there. However I WILL be attending the Da Boyz GT this year so that's definitely a plus

      @Calypso2ts: I agree with you on the repetitiveness of units being boring, I don't find it fun when my lists are relying so heavily on 1-2 units (look at my 5 Tervigons!). I actually know I played one of you guys last year at the PTGRTS tournament (its how I found your blog).
      I get back from college in about 3 weeks and I'd love to grab a game and get some painting tips if possible.

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    4. Do you remember the army? It was probably either me (Tyranids) or Calypso2ts (daemons or sisters).

      What were you playing?

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  4. Forgive me if this is a dumb question as I don't have a Daemon Codex and the answer may be in there, but how do you "grab" Invisibility every single game? This means you successfully rolled for it each game during the generate powers phase right? What is the chance of getting it every game, because it looks like THE power from your write-ups?

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    1. The Keeper is level 3 w/ 3 powers. It's about a 50% chance to get it each game.

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  5. Precisely - I was just lucky that I rolled it up each game. Overall my psychic powers were really good for this tournament.

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