I've been back and forth with my list over the past few weeks and this is what I brainstormed up last night:
Tyrant + armored shell, hive commander, heavy venom cannon, paroxysm, leech essence
Tervigon + adrenal glands, toxin sacs, catalyst, cluster spines
Ymgarl Genestealers x9Ymgarl Genestealers x9
Ymgarl Genestealers x9
Termagaunts x10
Tervigon + adrenal glands, toxin sacs, catalyst, cluster spines, crushing claws
Genestealers x5 + toxin sacs, broodlord/scything talons
Genestealers x5 + toxin sacs, broodlord/scything talons
Harpy + tl heavy venom cannons
Tyrannofex + rupture cannon, cluster spines, desiccators larvae Tyrannofex + rupture cannon, cluster spines, desiccators larvae Carnifex + heavy venom cannon
The concept is I deploy a bunch of MC's with long range firepower, the commando stealers ourflank with the troop tervigon, and the ymgarls go dormant. I hope for some good damage results before the reserves arrive and hopefully get into assault without taking any shooting casualties. It's only 13kp's for mission #1, I should be able to get at least 6 scoring units for mission #2, and dormant ymgarls are golden in DoW for mission #3.
Rob brought his dual lash CSM for the game:
Prince + MoS, lash, wings
Prince + MoS, lash, wings
Plague Marines x7 + champ, icon, fist, 2x melta, rhino + combi-melta
Plague Marines x7 + champ, icon, fist, 2x melta, rhino + combi-melta
Plague Marines x7 + champ, fist, 2x plasma, rhino + combi-melta
Plague Marines x7 + champ, fist, 2x flamer, rhino + combi-melta
Berzerkers x9 + champ, fist, icon, rhino + combi-melta
Lesser Daemons x17
Vindicator + daemonic possession
Obliterators x3
Obliterators x3
So it's a dual lash list, but the catch is I've never played against a dual lash list. I think my list will be OK because I don't have many swarms to lash together and template to death, but he's got enough high str/low ap shooting to put a hurt on my MC's.
We rolled 'Ardboyz mission #2 (spearhead/5 objectives) and despite my disappointment, agreed that since outflank and infiltrate is currently not in the mission, I would not be able to outflank my genestealers and tervigon (via HC). I did win the roll to go first and took it. The mission is set at 6 turns, so I know when and where the tank shocks will occur. The quarter I chose didn't have the most cover, but it put the most area terrain around Rob's deployment zone for my ymgarls to capitalize on.
I deployed my MC's in two groups so that I have shots on either side of a LoS-blocking terrain piece in the center. Ymgarls are all going dormant. Genestealers and troop tervigon are in normal reserves. I totally forgot to deploy my 10 gaunts so they ended up in reserve also.
Rob deployed his masses mostly behind the central terrain piece. His oblits were in the far right forest and top forest. He reserved the lesser daemons, flamer squad, and berzerkers. I chose both oblit forests and the central terrain (we called it area within the perimeter of the wall supports). Rob failed to seize the initiative.
I started by spawning 13 gaunts and burning out the HQ tervigon. My shooty monsters shuffled for better firing positions.
Four str10 and three str9 shots later, I stunned a rhino. Rob's cover saves were on fire.
He countered by moving up everything and smoking the lead rhino.
He hits the top tfex with dual lashes (one perils), but rolls too low and doesn't get it into assault range.
His oblits put two wounds on the tfex and two on my tyrant.
My turn 2 begins with ymgarls arriving in the center and top forest. I also get my troop tervigon and one of the genestealer commando units who come on the long edge near the objective in the empty quarter. my 10 gaunts arrive by the objective in my DZ.
I can't do the math in my head, but I want the ymgarls to assault the princes and possibly the oblits. I'm not ready for the tyrant to die, so I try to out-range the oblits on the right flank and put him in cover from multiple angles. My shooting wrecks the lead rhino (he makes several more cover saves against my str10 and str9 pens and glances). Ymgarls fleet into position.
I want the unit up top to assault both princes and the unit in the open to multi-assault the oblits and front prince. I misjudge my distances, have to roll difficult terrain, get triple 2's and fail to reach my primary target leaving 207pts of genestealers in the open and the other unit taking on both princes themselves. I only get 1 wound on each prince, lose combat by a couple wounds, but stay locked.
Rob gets his berzerkers in from reserves and zooms them right up to the tfex up top and pops smoke. On my right, another rhino zooms up to an objective and pops smoke. Plague marines and oblits shuffle forward and the vindicator takes firing position.
His combined firepower drops the tfex down to 1 wound. I make my cover saves on the tyrant. The ymgarls that failed to assault get shot down to 3 models. The ymgarls fighting the princes do 1 more wound to each (2w left on the lead and 1w left on the one that peril'd), get beat down to 3 models, and flee combat back into synapse range.
My turn 3 begins with my remaining ymgarls and genestealers arriving thanks to my HC bonus. I bring the genestealers on behind the ones that arrived last turn and get ready to pile into that rhino. The troop tervigon spawns 13 gaunts and burns out also. I send my carnifex after the central plague marines, the tfex up top into the berzerker rhino, and everything else shuffles for firing arcs or cover.
I decide to put the HVC's into plague marines and kill 1 from two different units. The tfex stuns the bezerker rhino. Genestealers, tervigon, and spawned gaunts assault the rhino in the lower right but only manage one stun. The carnifex takes a wound and kills 2 plague marines. Ymgarls on the right flank wipe out the oblits there and lose 1. I send 3 remaining ymgarls from the first wave into each prince, fail to do any wounds, and lose both units, freeing up his princes.
Rob gets the flamer squad in from reserves and brings them in near the objective top right and disembarks them to fire on the now free ymgarls. Berzerkers disembark and head for gaunts. Princes, vindicator, oblits, and plague marines up top jockey for position.
His flamer squad kills 3 ymgarls. A rhino combi-melta's the tfex up top taking its last wound. Oblits take one more wound from the tyrant. The prince up top perils on his lash with doubles 6's. The prince on the right fails his lash due to SiTW. The vindiactor takes out 6 gaunts with a pie plate. Berzerkers need a 5 to get through terrain to the gaunts, but don't get it. The carnifex finishes off the plague marines he's fighting and heads towards the prince up top. The prince on the right assaults genestealers and gets punked by the poisoned broodlord.
It's now the top of 4, I have no reserves left, and the mission is set at 6 turns so I need to get serious about objectives. I break off commando stealers from the rhino and send them after the vindicator. The commando squad that just arrived move up to take their place with the gaunts and tervigon backing off to re-assault the rhino in the bottom right. Ymgarls top right move to assault the flamer squad. Carnifex fails IB and heads for the last prince. Gaunts on the left get FnP and fall back into a bubble wrap firing squad.
I pump 13 gaunts, the tfex's cannon and pie plate, harpy's HVC and pie plate, and tervigon's pie plate into the berzerkers and knock them down to 5 models. Tyrant kills a plague marine. Carnifex assaults the prince and plows through it. Genestealers assault the vindicator and immobilize it. Tervigon, genestealers, and gaunts assault their rhino and wreck it. The unit emergency disembarks (I didn't know they could do this on top of their own wreckage). Ymgarls assault the flamer squad, kill a couple, and lock (morphed for T).
Rob finally gets his 17 lesser daemons and brings them in on the berzerker's icon.
He tries to snipe the tyrant with oblits, but I make my cover saves. The plague marines with plasma guns rapid fire into the carnifex, but leave him with 1 wound. Plague marines that emergency disembarked melta the tervigon doing 2 wounds. Vindicator drops it's pie plate point blank and kills 2 stealers. He multi-assaults my 3 leading monsters with the daemons.
My carnifex lives while the harpy and tfex each take 2 wounds. I smash a couple daemons and we lock. Berzerkers assault the FnP gaunts and kill 4 while I kill 2 back. Plague marines top left actually beat my ymgarls who break and run back into synapse. The genestealers on the vindicator wreck it. Plague marines bottom right on their wreckage only get 3" so he puts one on the tervigon and the rest on gaunts. I get my counter attack and between gaunts and the tervigon (with claws), wipe out the plague marines.
It's the top of 5 now and I send the now fearless ymgarls and genestealers in the top right after his surviving plague marines. Gaunts in the bottom right hunker down on an objective. Troop tervigon and genestealers head for the center objective. Unengaged gaunts on the left head into a gap I made when pulling casualties.
My tyrant gets paroxysm off on the plague marines. I move into assaults with the second unit of gaunts jumping into the berzerkers and after the dust settles, only the champ stands. My carnifex finally goes down with the harpy and tfex taking one more wound to daemons. Genestealers and ymgarls up top finish off plague marines.
Rob moves his last 2 rhinos in position to contest next turn. Plague marines head for my tervigon despite being bs1/ws1. I take a brutal turn of shooting and assault, losing the harpy, tyrant, and tervigon (yes, he killed it with ws1 plague marines). My gaunts finish the last berzerker and consolidate towards the top and bottom objectives.
It's the top of 6 and the mission says this it it. I send the central stealers up to multi-assault daemons and plague marines. Ymgarls head off to stop a rhino from contesting.
Genestealers join the fray. The broodlord hypnotizes the powerfist champion and I kill several marines and daemons.
Not many unengaged units left at this point. Rob moves his rhinos up to contest. Oblits put 2 wounds on the tervigon. Genestealers and tfex are able to finish off the daemons and plague marines.
The game ends with me controlling 3-0 objectives with enough points for a massacre as per the mission scoring.
Wow, what a roller coaster game! I had a bad feeling in the beginning with Rob making 75% of his vehicle cover saves. I didn't report ever dice roll, but when he shot my ymgarls in the beginning, I also failed 4 of 5 armor saves (4+) in one volley. He was making armor saves against my HVC blasts on plague marines 4 of 4 and 4 of 5 times on several occasions. However, since I was able to distract him with ymgarls on turns 2 and 3, and keep my monsters alive until my dice warmed up. As can be expected, Robs hot dice went on vacation in later turns and mine just got better the longer the game went. My only major mistake/regret was getting greedy with the turn 2 multi-assault where 9 ymgarls rolled triple 2's for terrain and didn't make it into combat with oblits and the prince. All ended up well in the end and I feel pretty good about this list for next week.
Great Report!
ReplyDeleteOne quick note in case this happens at the actual tournament - If you wreck a vehicle while it is totally surrounded, the enemy does NOT get to place his models on top -- It doesn't become a piece of terrain until after they've disembarked. While it's still considered a model, other models aren't allowed to be placed on top of it. Wrecking a surrounded vehicle to destroy the guys inside is a widely accepted practice in 5th edition, especially by now. Just watch out for explodes! because in that case the occupants will be on the table, after you've taken explosion casualties.
Yeah I figured. I didn't want to push it in a friendly game and I figured the 3 troops would still be able to hold that objective anyways.
ReplyDeleteYmgarls are true anti-lash CSM units. They are the best against oblits and against Princes. So, don't get overconfident after this match;) Keep testing:)
ReplyDeleteThanks for keeping me grounded Erle. Don't worry though, I didn't tailor the list to fight dual lash and I won't let it go to my head. One thing I learned early on is if I go into a game expecting to win, I very often lose.
ReplyDeleteTbh, I had GK and DE more in mind when I made the list. Ymgarls are there to grab fast skimmers, psyriflemen, and even hit knights without getting torrented down by storm bolters like normal genestealers.
In the same fashion, HVC and rupture cannons fare much better against night shielded skimmers and riflemen than hive guard which can be out ranged and out maneuvered.
That's good. Just keep in mind that your opponent can destroy whole Ymgarl brood by flooding one piece of area terrain with minis. It's quite easy to guess where those three units of Ymgarls are laying dormnant.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless I think that Ymgarls are very solid choice and my latest armylists always includes a brood or two of 7-8 Ymgarls with Hive commander support.
If you're interested, my real headache now is Dark Eldar... 8 venoms + 3 ravagers with 9 lances, 17 blasters and 96 poisoned shots...
It's only 1750 points and how do you feel against them?
ReplyDeleteThe thing about Ymgarls is you need to win the mind game.
ReplyDeleteThey can be killed (and I've had my friend Chris so this to me) by filling the right terrain, so you have to be careful what you choose. With hive commander, this usually only happens if you choose a piece of terrain in your opponent's deployment zone.
Very rarely will they ever rush forward towards your army to fill terrain in the middle.
Don't forget with a move, fleet, and assault, you don't need to choose terrain near your opponent's deployment zone. Even if you can't reach them the turn they arrive, you can give the unit FnP and morph for t5 (even if they don't assault) and they become very survivable.
My list is designed to capitalize on the mind game. I deploy all these MC's that can shoot 36-48", are very tough, and will either have 2+ or 4+ cover. This will force my opponent to come towards me. If I choose terrain in the center, this means my opponent will be running towards my sleeping ymgarls. If they move to flank me, the outflanking genestealers and tervigon with claws will catch them.
As far as DE, I've not yet have to play against that sort of build yet. We only have 2 players out of about 30 locals that play skimmer spam. Rob (this batrep) is one of them and he's bringing CSM to Ardboyz. I did play against some raiders and skimmers here in the team game:
http://synaps3.blogspot.com/2011/06/atc-doubles-game-3.html
We overcame them with hive guard and 60+ genestealers with FnP. Lances don't do much if you can maintain cover. Poison shots hit on 3+, wound on 4+. If you can keep your stealers in cover with FnP until they strike, 96 poisoned shots only kills 8 stealers a turn.
I wish you good luck. I deeply appreciate your list designs cause they are not just spamming of a «single-task» gribblies. But I feel that this list needs some more work to be done. Hope to see the results soon:)
ReplyDeleteWhat is the list lacking, or where does it need work in your opinion?
ReplyDeleteIt has:
4 str10 shots, 3 str9 blasts all from turn 1
5 str5 large blasts
10 poisoned stealers (plus 2 BL), 27 ymgarls
7 MC's with 32 t6 wounds, half of which have 2+ armor
6 minimum troops with one spawn per tervigon
13 base KP @ 2500pts where many armies will have 20+
What do you think the list needs, or what armies do you think will give it problems?
I’ll try to explain. Let me be your opponent. If I play Eldar, SM, GK, BA, SW, DE… even Orks I have much more shooting at this point level. I have the advantage of speed so I won’t rush you turn 1. I’ll deploy everything backfields, filling 1 unit of area terrain with my troops. Then I’ll place my vehicles maximum possible in cover from your Tfexe and I won’t bother about HVC’s. So, the only one threat left for me is Ymgarls. That’s why I have to screen everything with weak troops like avengers/boys or screen with vehicles moving at cruising speed (DE may move 12” and shoot at the same time).
ReplyDeleteSo, after one or two stand-and-shoot turns (thanks to hive commander!) Ymgarls charge my screen, kills it completely or charge vehicles, wreck maybe one or two. That’s it. Ymgarls in open in a rapid fire range. MC’s are not close enough to make me hurt. So I wipe out Ymgarls with relative ease.
Turn 4 I push for objectives or run a clean-up operation if we play a KP game.
Maybe I just lacking game experience, but I just want to help you thinking:)