Three games under the belt with the new edition and my thoughts are still changing and evolving. Here's a new list I want to test next. Thoughts afterwards.
1500pts
Tyrant + wings, old adversary, devourers x2
Hive Guard x3
Termagants x20 + devourers
Tervigon + crushing claws, toxins, 3 powers
Warriors x3 + deathspitters x2, barbed strangler
Raveners x5 + rending
Trygon
Aegis Defense Line
So this list is more of a threat management list. I'm beginning to think that multi-wound models will have the best chance now with the changes to shooting. Pulling models from the front really hurts genestealer's assault range. Plus, the broodlord will now get focused down once he's in front. That's why the raveners made it into this list. I'm hoping the tyrant and trygon take up all the high str shooting early on leaving the raveners to get into assault at nearly full strength.
I dropped the genestealers and ymgarls totally for now. Shooting is just too brutal against single wound models. Even rapid firing marines are going to kill a ymgarl or two and if they're smart, strike first. My theory is that multi-wound models are going to be better in assault now, or at least lose fewer models on the way in.
Another interesting note is that preferred enemy allows you to reroll 1's to wound. This means the tyrant (and trygon if he's close enough) don't need toxin sacs against MEQ as you're wounding on 2+ anyways.
The main thing I'm unsure of is the tyrant at this point. I think 2+ armor will beat out wings almost every time, but I feel like I need some mobility. Infiltrating genestealers get shot a lot more now thanks to the new rapid fire. Most reserve units took a big hit. I feel like ymgarls will maybe take out 1 squad if they're lucky and then get shot down. Hormagaunts suffer the same weaknesses. Always pull casualties from the front, the same with overwatch, and strike last if assaulting into terrain. That's how I ended up with raveners and MC's for assaulting.
I'm not sure about the barbed strangler now that pinned units can snap fire. The prime can join the warriors though and eat str8 shots if he stands in front. He's also great at killing sarges in challenges. The devilgaunts are an MVP unit now IMO with pre-measuring always allowed and 60 overwatch shots if you want to assault them. The tervigon is also a proper CC beast now with some of the new psychic powers.
Anyways, I'm rambling on now. I hope to test the list next Monday and use it in the next Saturday event if it appeals to me.
Think "Rippers".
ReplyDeleteI'll definitely try some sooner or later. Thing is they're my least favorite model to paint in the whole range and I have every unit in the codex except pyrovores lol.
DeleteKey with ymgarls is the same as stealers in 5th, you've got to overwhelm and break the opponent's back with them.
ReplyDeleteTough to overwhelm with a 10 man Ymgarls squad when enemy units are trending larger in size for 6th edition
DeleteI agree. With overwatch and striking last, you're going to lose 2-3 on a bad day so it's just about not worth taking less than 10. My squad of 6 couldn't take 7 tac marines in the open and we forgot overwatch.
DeleteBest bet with them is to go after devestators.
I've used them in all 3 games so far so I want to try something new. Raveners provide another unit with a big footprint and huge threat range to backup the other slogging units.
Here are the units I currently think are must have:
ReplyDeleteWinged Tyrant
Walking Tyrant (armored shell) w. 2x Tyrant Guard
Tervigon
Yrmgarl genestealer
Genestealers w. Broodlord
Devilgants w. poison
Hive Guard
Poison is awesome now and I plan to use it as much as possible.
Yeah I really want to try a double tyrant list sometime soon also.
DeleteWhy poison on devil gants ?
DeleteAs I understand it, an IC like the Prime can Look Out Sir wounds to any model he wish. Multiwound models seem to break the new wound allocation rules. For instance, handing out 5 wounds to 5 different Warriors in his unit to make sure no one dies. Perhaps Warriors isn't the best example as they don't like to be handed a S8 wound. But there are possibilities opening up with a Tyranid Prime spearheading a brood of Carnifexes, or in a proper Deathstar with Tyrant and Guards.
ReplyDeleteSounds about right. The thing is I live and play in DaBoyz backyard. One of the largest comp mecca's of America. Plus, the upcoming event is a "fun" event to learn the new rules and prize support will be raffled off. The only thing I'd accomplish by pulling out the dirty tricks in the first event will be pissing people off.
DeleteThat stuff you mentioned comes later.
When you use "look out sir" you MUST give all the wound to one model, so no dirty trick :(
DeleteDon't think this is correct.
Delete"When a wound (or unsaved wound) is allocated to one of your characters..."
So say you have a prime in front with 3 carnifexes behind. The unit takes 4 wounds all with the same armor/cover. Say you failed every save, you can 2+ the first onto one fex, the second on the second, third on third and keep one on the prime. Or any other combo.
that is what GW man have sayd to me, i hope it work like your example.
DeleteI feel that in this list the Trygon is going to go down fast. If the Tyrant is in 'swoop' mode, and thus tough to hit the Trygon becomes an easy choice in target priorities.
ReplyDeleteI personally am torn on the effectiveness of the flying Tyrant. Do you feel that the benefits it receives as a fire magnet justifies the cost when for 70 points less (without Old Adversary)I can get a Carnifex with as much firepower?
I think you may be right about multi-wound models, especially with the increase in plasma being taken mover melta. Less S8 is always a boost for midzilla.
The thing with playing nids is something is always going down fast. It's the nature of an army with no transports and some of the worst armor in the game. It's all about putting the units that don't get shot down to best use. That threat level management is the core to a strong list with bugs.
DeleteIf they shoot the tyrant (I hope) they waste a lot of shots and the trygon and raveners get close. If they shoot the trygon and my tyrant gets into the middle of their army, well...
Also it's all about testing everything at this point. I've only used a flyrant once so here we go again!
Had the same thought as you on the multi-wound models; add in no more fearless wounds and a big units of multi-wound models gets pretty interesting. Considering the amount of fire flyrants are going to attract, we'll need other things to muck with target priority. 9 raveners/shrikes w/bs+lw may fit the bill. Ridiculously expensive though.
ReplyDeleteYes! First Blood and victory points in general will begin to encourage larger units. Combined with hull points, and hitting vehicles on 3's, maybe we'll see a decline in MSU mech spam.
DeleteI think Shrikes are looking like the best multi wound T4 unit we have. They are slightly slower than raveners due to fleet, but they can jump over units, gain hammer of wrath, and can reroll the dice to assault anyway if using their JPs in movement. However, I think they come out on top of Raveners with their access to LW/BS and poisoned weapons. With a flyrant in your list, that'll drop the Heavy shots coming at them, and often let them live long enough to hit and kill something.
ReplyDeleteThey each have their own strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately, I only have 3 shrikes modeled while I have 6 raveners ready for action.
DeleteShrikes are really good now for sure !
ReplyDeleteOne thing not being mentioned is that biomancy provides a way to make our multi wound units have eternal warrior, feel no pain and regeneration...
ReplyDeleteWhoops my bad. The eternal warrior power is a target: self. Shrug.
DeleteI'm not sure why first blood and victory points (the same As kill points really) would encourage large units any more than the last edition.
ReplyDeleteWell for tyranids specifically, First Blood means you probably don't want any small units that can be 1-shotted or easily eliminated in turn 1. If tournaments move to the new mission format where every single mission uses First Blood, you're missing out on 3-6 VP's if you give up First Blood.
Delete