Tervigon (HQ) + ts, ag, cat, onslaught, cluster spines
Hive Guard x3
Hive Guard x3
Ymgarls x7
Termagants x17
Tervigon + ts, ag, cat, cluster spines
Genestealers x15 + broodlord, scytals
Genestealers x15 + broodlord, scytals
Tyrannofex + rupture cannon, desiccator larvae, cluster spines
Tyrannofex + rupture cannon, desiccator larvae, cluster spines
So this list is the product of several days worth of brainstorming. Tyranids are still getting a lot of attention in the blogosphere as we have so many good units and synergies, yet people are still looking to tournament results for hope.
There have been essays on staying true to the tyranid way, such as armies that rely on close combat as anti-armor. This mindset can work and even be effective in most games, but it's largely reliant on one thing: a mechanized opponent allowing you to reach their vehicles. It can also be countered by moving up empty transports to block movement. I experienced this firsthand at DaBoyz GT when I paired off against a ravenguard list. He had Shrike with assault marines, and two land raider crusaders with hammernators (fleet). It was a kp mission and my opponent bagged my two minimum gant units and then ran away from me for the rest of the game. Hive guard can't stop land raider with extra armor reliably, and trygons can't catch them while eating assault cannon shots (machine spirit).
Other posts from places like YTTH, 3++, and TTH have also touched on nids in the compertitive scene. Everyone believes we can build competitive lists, but most are rock/paper/scissors situations where a matchup against the "top 3 (SW, IG, BA)" can produce a loss for us. I also had a chance to face mass lootas last weekend where I realized how powerful they are.
And so this list was born. It's not too different from some of my most recent ones, but it has some important changes. This way my mindset. My NOVA list has to be able to handle:
1. Mech that wants to avoid CC
2. Long Fangs/Lootas
3. Thunderwolves
4. Mephiston
5. Hordes
You may think that list is too short or too specific, but these are the main "rocks" to our "scissors" of the tyranid codex (at least IMO). Mech, fangs/lootas/devestators, and hordes are pretty generic. We need some ranged shooting that can open transports. We need some way to get in the backfield to hit long fangs. We need ways to deal with several squads of 30 orks. These are all things we are likely to see in a large tournament. Mephiston and thunderwolves, specifically kitted out wolf lords, pose a challenge in hitting us faster and harder than we can often counter.
Taking all these things into account, this list was born. Tfexes and hive guard provide a pretty solid anti-mech firebase. Ymgarls provide backfield disruption, and normal stealers are blockers/counterattack. Gants are there to score or tarpit. Tfexes in front greatly mitigates missile spam/lootas with 2+. Everything else should have 4+ cover or FnP as needed. Broodlords can hypnotize the big hitters if needed.
So there it is, one of my best shots at an all-comers competitve lists with balanced shooting, assault, and disruption units. It also comes in at 36 t6 wounds, 64 models, 4 scoring units (can spawn a minimum of 2 more), and only 10 kp's.
What do y'all think?
Only two synapse nodes?
ReplyDeleteTrue only two synapse nodes however, I've had quite a bit of success running a "similar" lists simply because the list doesn't need the synapse. Tfexen are LD10 and stealers have brood telepathy.
ReplyDeleteLike I said on my previous post I run a similar list at 1500. However I was running both Tervigons as HQ to save me points, definitely a good move to have one HQ one Troop. Also Just as a personal preference I would min the Termagants to buy me some Onslaught when possible. Those Tfexen in a lot of cases can act as move-able terrain for the Stealer units. For example at 1500 I’ve had some success with running harpys for TL HVC goodness but also use them to collect a 4+ on my stealers.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing to look at is sometimes I take a list like yours and find the points to replace the Tfexen with 2 Tyrants with BS & LW HVC, Old Adv, and Armoured Shell. They can pop pretty good still have a 2+ and offer better Melee capability they are just a tad less survivable with 2 less wounds but can’t be super screwed by JAWS.
@Vapor ~ Yup, synapse would be one of the weaknesses of the list. Every list will have some weakness right? My plan is to have tervigons heavily protected behind tfexes. With genestealers infiltrated and hive guard on the front line, the only way to take out the tervigons would be tons of firepower and would mean ignoring the rest of my army. Of all my games, I can only remember losing both tervigons in 2 of around 30 games.
ReplyDelete@Guillius~ Good call with the onslaught on the tfexes. I always thought of using it to grant extra range, but not as keeping them moving in front of my force. I'll have to try it out.
I tested the heavy venom cannons in a few games over the past two weeks. My findings were that they're good for suppresion (keeping vehicles from shooting), but not for destroying. The -1 on damage charts is the deciding factor.
I like tfexes because they come with 2 more wounds than carnifexes/tyrants, 2+ armor, and 2 shots with the rupture cannon. Even with bs3, they have a better chance of producing a hit, penetration, and better damage result than HVC's.
I do agree that JoTWW gives this list trouble, but I have decent countermeasures. The amount of shooting should be able to stop them from getting within 24" in a transport or tie them up with stealers. In a pod, I can castle up and use gants and stealers to force them to drop max distance from my init1 monsters.
I'll try and wrangle some friends into letting me playtest this list soon...
I think you need the two Tfexen to run a competitive army. They are your answer to mech and their presence will intimidate a lot of mech players. They are really expensive but I think they are a great choice.
ReplyDeleteG
No doubt. I've only lost my tfex once and that was against another Nid list who had CC monsters where mine were shooty monsters.
ReplyDeleteHere's a variant that I've been stewing over today:
Tervigon (HQ) ts, ag, cat, onsl., cluster spines
Hive Guard x3
Hive Guard x3
Venomthropes x2
Genestealers x20 ts
Termagants x21
Tervigon ts, ag, cat, cluster spines
Raveners x3 rending
Raveners x3 rending
Tyrannofex rc, dl, cs
Tyrannofex rc, dl, cs
I know before even finishing it, some of y'all won't like it. I don't even think my logic is sound yet to justify some of this build. It's probably one of those lists that looks bad on paper, and either plays out beautifully or really is bad.
I know almost every person I've spoken to in depth about nids like raveners, but not in small units. So I ask you, whats the difference between 1x6 or 2x3? I'll deploy them next to each other so they can both assault the same unit if needed. Nobody's going to get an assault on me with 20 stealers or 20 gants in front of them.
Oh yeah, they can be instakilled by missiles and lascannons, but are you really going to choose them over venomthropes, hive guard, and tervigons? Battlecannons, I know. Everything has a weaknesses and if I'm taking battlecannon hits, that means my opponent has that many less hydras, manticores, or obliterators. You know, the better heavy support choices.
So I have a pretty solid delivery method for the raveners. I dropped one unit of genestealers, made the remaining one larger and gave them toxins. FWIW, 15 with toxins costs the same as 15 with a broodlord, and the toxic unit will win every time. Yeah, I gave up a slim chance to prevent characters from stiking in combat, oh well.
Whereas ymgarls need a successful reserve roll to show up, raveners can hit your opponents's deployment zone turn s 2 and 3 also. They can stay closer to tervigons, and given FnP 3 raveners can assault 5 long fangs or 10 lootas in cover with similar results. Statistically, 3 rending raveners will produce one penetration on rear armor 10 against a vehicle that moved 6" or less, and raveners are a lot harder to outrun than genestealers.
Anyways, I began my second tyrannofex conversion today so I can begin testing either of these lists soon.
you are right so i want to see both list in a battle report :P. And is onslaught that usefull??, i think is good for hiveward, but not incredible good...
ReplyDeleteTfex are only Leadership 8. I am having a hard time not taking 2x Tfex in any of my lists. It holds well for AT. I am still working on being more aggressive with them though.
ReplyDelete~Lackeylsk
Yeah I've never used 2, but I'm excited to...
ReplyDeleteHere's another revision with more CC punch. Only problem is it doesn't scale to 1850 at all, so no local tournaments and pick up games only for now.
Tervigon (HQ) ts, ag, cat, onsl., cluster spines
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Genestealers x18 ts
Termagants x10
Tervigon ts, ag, cat, cluster spines
Raveners x3 rending
Raveners x3 rending
Tyrannofex rc, dl, cs
Tyrannofex rc, dl, cs
Trygon
No venomthropes, add trygon. Interesting... Now I have infiltrating cc, beast speed, and a fleet monster running forward with 3 hive guard units and 2 tfexes for fire support.
No batreps this week I'm afraid. Getting married in 5 weeks so my playtime is decreasing. One of these 3 lists will see a game next week I hope...
oh, contrats men
ReplyDelete