Thursday, May 30, 2013

Crimson Fists: Newest List Idea






Every few months or so I begin to take a look around at my local gaming scene and at the new monstrosities (pun intended) coming out in the newest books and try to build a list that will give me a chance on the tabletop while also remaining fun.  As a player of an older codex (yes, Codex: Space Marines are old now) it's sometimes difficult to come up with something I haven't already played and something that will allow me to deal with things like the Riptide, Flyers, and the soon to be annoying Wraithknight. 




Here is the list that I've come up with.  I haven't completely hashed it out yet and I'm sure I'll be making changes to it based on playtesting and comments people may leave.


HQ:
Lysander

Elites:
Sternguard Squad 10x; Powerfist, 3x Combi-Plasma, 2x Combi-Melta
     -Drop Pod
Ironclad Dreadnought; Chainfist, 2x Heavy Flamers
     -Drop Pod
Assault Terminators; 3x TH/SS, 2x LC
     -Land Raider Crusader w/ Multi-Melta
Fast Attack:
Stormtalon; Twin-linked Lascannon
Stormtalon; Twin-linked Lascannon

Troops:
Tactical Squad 10x; Combi-Plasma, Power Axe, Plasma, Plasma Cannon
Tactical Squad 10x; Powerfist, Melta, Multi-Melta
     -Rhino

Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannon


Total Points
1850

Right off the bat I can say my greatest worry about this list is its lack of scoring units.  With only two tactical squads I only have the possibility of four scoring units, and if I break them down that way those units will be tiny and easily killed off.  However, my thought process is what I lose in scoring ability I make up in killing ability.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ot4cauU0Su4/SyLEgvHh_bI/AAAAAAAAAJc/7rBDTXkxiPI/s320/1252359206841.jpgLysander is a beast of a character, especially in 6th edition.  His four wounds, and a 2+/3+ Eternal Warrior makes him exceedingly difficult to kill.  Additionally, his master crafted S10 thunder hammer adds +1 to the damage chart of vehicles and makes it very easy to kill the majority of models out there. 

What makes him especially nasty in this army is his Bolter Drill rule, which allows any model firing a bolt weapon to re-roll a miss result, including the special ammunition carried by Sternguard!  That's right kids, all those lovely rounds that Sternguard have are all now re-rolling to hit.  While most would think the 2+ poisoned rounds are nasty (and they are) I also love the idea of re-rolling the "gets hot" results from the AP3 vengeance rounds.  Suddenly that Sternguard squad got a LOT nastier, especially since no one wants to really assault it between it re-rolling over-watch and Lysander being in there as well.  Putting this squad in a Drop Pod and adding a few combi-weapons makes it capable of destroying or severely mauling any unit out there, including those damned Monstrous Creatures that GW seems to have a thing for lately.

The Assault Terminators in a Land Raider are there to be another "punch you in the face" unit the enemy has to kill.  Between the firepower of the Raider and the assault power of the Terminators it's a unit the enemy has to kill before it gets to their lines.

I've added an Ironclad Dreadnought with duel heavy flamers and a chain fist in a Drop Pod to further complicate the picture for my enemy.  First off with two DP's he doesn't know which unit will be coming down first turn which in turn forces him to make deployment decisions to react to my army.  Additionally the I.C. is extremely nasty and with the duel flamer it'll fry an infantry unit it comes down on.  Now all that firepower that would normally be going at the Land Raider barreling toward their lines is going to the A13 Dreadnought in their face.  Again, I like forcing my opponents to make decisions.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7250461880_b8eef9121e_z.jpg

The inclusion of the Stormtalons fills two roles in my list.  First, they are my only true Anti-Flyer units in the list, and they are also my only real long range anti-armour.  I've modeled them with the TLLC because I'd rather take a single S9 shot at AP2 than three S7 shots or two S8.  Call me crazy but I prefer the "near" guarantee to penning a Dakka Jet than a possibility.

The rest of the list is pretty straight forward to be honest.  For those of you that have read my list building post a month ago, the TFC is an auto-include in every single one of my army list.  The firepower it pumps out for 100 points combined with 6th Editions added durability to artillery pieces just makes it too good to NOT take.  The first tactical squad is meant to take out MEQ style units while the Rhino squad is my mobile scoring unit.

I'm pretty happy with the list minus the scoring units reservation.   Let me know how YOU would change this list or what you like about it.   I'll be sure to post how it performs in the next few weeks.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xpvbKDUxRI0/UFJLptQG6QI/AAAAAAAABiU/xcBfanLg0ts/s1600/Crimson_Fist_Space_Marine_by_LionElJonson.jpg

7 comments:

  1. I like this list, and as a fellow fist player I know what you mean when it comes to combating the newer codexes with the Index Astartes as our guide. I love lysander in the sternguard but I run far less combi weapons because you are missing out on bolter drill and once the sternguard land they are often target one for small arms fire. I run one combi melta and a fist in the squad. Another trick I have been trying is I dumped my land raider and added Pedro and beacons on my pods. Now my sternguard are scoring with Lysander eating those wonderfual small arms fire wounds. Just a thought from a fellow Son of Dorn.

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  2. That single rhino is going to die real quick, I've played a list that's similar to this recently, and I originally did the same thing as you. The rhino would be better off being changed into a pod. Yes you can't do the thing where your opponent has a 50/50 of guessing what's coming down turn 1, but you have both good things coming down at the same time and that's not too bad either.

    Not sure about the ironclad with 2x heavy flamer. I'm always worried about scattering away and then not being able to do anything with an expensive model, but then I'm a fan of an assault cannon/heavy flamer dread so maybe it's just me. Personally I think it would save some points and be more effective to have a normal multi-melta, heavy flamer dread instead, then trim a few more points and get a scout squad with camo cloaks for the points to help deal with a lack of scoring.

    About the stormtalons, the benefit of taking the 3 s7 shots is that they're a lot cheaper. I can justify taking a stormtalon if its 5 points cheaper than a vendetta. I can't really do that if it starts costing in the region of 150 pts... Just saying ;)

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  3. Can Lysander join a unit in a Drop Pod? I wasn't sure if someone in Terminator armor could, and if so wouldn't they take up 2 transport slots for being 'bulky' (so him + 10 man sternguard would = 12 in a drop pod, which in C:SM I thought could only transport a maximum of 11...) ? I could be wrong and I hope that I am, cause that would be a really fun combo in what looks like a very fun list!

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  4. @Joe M. - The Drop Pod can hold twelve models, so the ten Sternguard and Lysander will fit no problem!

    @Bryan - Always good to hear from another Fist player! I really like the combination of Lysander and Kantor but I have an awfully hard time spending 375 points on two single models. They are wonderful force multipliers but I get wary. I'll have to try it out though!

    @DimmyK - I hadn't thought about a third Drop Pod (mainly because I don't own one) but after reading that maybe I'll swap out the Rhino for one...having the Melta and Multi-Melta come down is also pretty solid, especially since I can get them midfield pretty quickly. The reason I love the Ironclad over the Normal dreadnought is because that A 13/13/10 is just DAMN annoying for my local friends to kill, and although I normally run it with a seismic hammer and melta I went with the duel HF so I could have a little bit more horde killing.

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  5. You know what? i love it. I think it meshes very good with crimson fists as they tend to be tooled out veterans and such since their ranks were heavily thinned out at some point.

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  6. I like the list - the only change I would make has been suggested already - I would add a pod for the Rhino which lets you protect a 'weak scoring unit' in reserve or drop them to threaten/capture enemy objectives. Also, if lets you push all your hard hitting units into the first wave. I also really like the idea of a pod with the Thunderfire to help rearrange the models and to put the TFC in some interesting locations.

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  7. And if nothing else, you can deploy the thunderfire cannon and shoot down an empty pod if you enemy reserves more than you, that way you still have something coming later, such as sternguard if you know your opponent just reserved a monstrous creature. Pedro and Lysander are expensive and 375 is alot to spend on them, I ran only Lysander for a very long time and always had 2 sternguard. With lysander and the reroll to hit and wound on 2's I was averaging 17 wounds on monstrous creatures, which most simply could not save enough. I dropped some extra stuff mainly a tactical squad and 5 scouts and made both sternguard scoring, and since I am very aggressive with them they are always in my opponents deployment zone. Saves tacticals from having to move to midfield. I also agree on the pod over the rhino, even if you decide to deploy them normally, you can stall tanks by putting a pod directly in front of them :)

    As far as the Dread goes, the dual heavy flamer is a great combo and with the new disembark 6 inches even if the pod scatters you should be pretty close to the target and if not if you are agressive and go for center of their army you will be dual torching something.

    Just my 2 cents, and now off to the pain glove!

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